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Xavin

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Like I said, it wasn't much of a trick for Netflix - TV shows were like this from the start, and movies were and still are pay-per-view first, and a product later. It's only games that start with ownership.
It's also, even now with a dozen different streaming services, cheaper to stay subscribed to everything than it used to be to buy media. I have a gigantic DVD collection I spent way too much money and time on that's basically just room decor at this point. I can watch all that stuff and so much more at much better than DVD quality without even getting off my couch these days.

While games are currently being stubborn with pricing, I think that's where we're eventually going to end up too. Right now the people who buy games seem to mainly be the middle aged people who grew up buying games. Kids/young adults seem to almost exclusively play free to play and mobile games. I'm sure part of that is because as a kid you don't have much money, I would have been all over FTP games had they existed in the 80s/90s, but part of it is they just think about things differently, they are growing up with smartphones and tablets in their hands.

I can see those kids moving to subscription services as they get older, they are already use to that for music and video, and the monthly nature makes them seem cheaper, or at least more accessible to someone with a tight budget. Based on what I have seen, trying to convert them to $70, $80, or whatever game prices are eventually pushed up to is going to be an incredibly hard sell, when they could just go back to Minecraft or Fortnite, or pay for GamePass and get a huge chunk of curated games. I'm pretty sure that's why MS is shifting so hard to GamePass, and why Epic is coming at it from the other end making Fortnite into a game platform. Neither of them are worried about us, our generation has proven that we'll pay for anything at damn near any price, they are thinking about what things are going to look like in 2030 and 2040 when their core market is people who are kids now.
 
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MichaelC

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Sulphur

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Music and books too - but this is where radio and libraries have been in the picture for a while. Most people won't own a large percentage of the books and music they enjoy.
That's not the point. While movies, shows, and music may have started off that way, the landscape of how they were consumed changed when mass-producible storage media allowed them to be purchased and accessed for personal use. Reverting to an earlier paradigm is, quite literally, moving backwards. Anyway, I get the sense you're not arguing for that as a matter of course -- or at least I hope you aren't.
 

swiftdraw

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I never played FF7 when it was new. Decided to try the PC version a few years ago. DIdn't understand what all the fuss was about, quit after a few hours.
It was wildly popular when I was in middle school (christ am I dating myself), but I never got past the first disk. I think 7 was the one where home console systems were starting to hit critical mass and Final Fantasy, in the States, had gotten positive word of mouth from FFIII/VI that the new group of gamers wanted to see what the fuss was about. FFVII was probably this groups first JRPG and something they’d be nostalgic about. The folks who were around from the SNES FF games, VII was a solid evolution of the formula put forward from the earlier games and now you had fully animated cut scenes (which is why I think Aerith’s death had the effect it did) and a kickass sound track! No more bit tunes!
 

CPX

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It was wildly popular when I was in middle school (christ am I dating myself), but I never got past the first disk. I think 7 was the one where home console systems were starting to hit critical mass and Final Fantasy, in the States, had gotten positive word of mouth from FFIII/VI that the new group of gamers wanted to see what the fuss was about. FFVII was probably this groups first JRPG and something they’d be nostalgic about. The folks who were around from the SNES FF games, VII was a solid evolution of the formula put forward from the earlier games and now you had fully animated cut scenes (which is why I think Aerith’s death had the effect it did) and a kickass sound track! No more bit tunes!

Yeah, FF7's importance as I remember it always seem tied to the rise of the original PlayStation itself supplanting Nintendo and Sega as not only the "default" console of the time between existing gamers but also by expanding console gaming's reach as a whole further out into the mainstream than either Nintendo or Sega could manage during their peak years in the early 90s (and definitely more than the successive N64 or DreamCast could manage).

I remember trying to play it in the early 2000s and just couldn't quite find myself invested in it. I got the chance to play FFIX in 1999 and that game's then-modern and genuine take on the FF3/6 / Chrono Trigger formula is definitely why that game spoke to me. But FF7 struck me as a game that almost felt ashamed of being a FF game and most of the non-FFIX titles that followed FF7 all seemed to follow that same direction.
 
That's not the point. While movies, shows, and music may have started off that way, the landscape of how they were consumed changed when mass-producible storage media allowed them to be purchased and accessed for personal use. Reverting to an earlier paradigm is, quite literally, moving backwards. Anyway, I get the sense you're not arguing for that as a matter of course -- or at least I hope you aren't.

I think we need to realize that the landscape changed once again, with high speed internet. If someone told me 15 years ago that we'd have unlimited CD-quality music on tap, for the price of, I don't know, a small bag of pistachios per month - I'd probably believe that, but that would seem dreamy. That we can download many - if not all - quality 20-40GB games at no extra cost just to try them - but play any and all of them to completion - that's a different paradigm too, with big advantages. No more buyers remorse, for example. On the other hand, like I said, ownership being digital means it's no longer what it was. It's still has some value, but, let's put it like this: I'm more concerned about many games not being available in subscriptions now, than about a slim chance of some games not being available for purchase in the future.
 

malor

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Fight me at the big bridge! I'd put that up against anything from any later soundtrack.
I dunno, the Chrono Trigger soundtrack was only a couple years later, on the same hardware, and IMO much better. Take a listen if you haven't already:



If you click through, that's a whole playlist of good songs. Schala's Theme is one that didn't get a lot of airtime in the original, and it's quite good. And "To Far Away Times" at the end is kind of a reprise of a lot of the other tracks.

The entire soundtrack takes up three CDs. There was a lot of music in Chrono Trigger, and all of it was good.
 
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CommanderJameson

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Sulphur

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I think we need to realize that the landscape changed once again, with high speed internet. If someone told me 15 years ago that we'd have unlimited CD-quality music on tap, for the price of, I don't know, a small bag of pistachios per month - I'd probably believe that, but that would seem dreamy. That we can download many - if not all - quality 20-40GB games at no extra cost just to try them - but play any and all of them to completion - that's a different paradigm too, with big advantages. No more buyers remorse, for example. On the other hand, like I said, ownership being digital means it's no longer what it was. It's still has some value, but, let's put it like this: I'm more concerned about many games not being available in subscriptions now, than about a slim chance of some games not being available for purchase in the future.
Frankly, that still comes across as a rationalisation of paying less to trade away a previous freedom.

Anyway, a tangential issue is I'm not convinced subscription is a tenable model if it stays as it is, at least for the TV market. The revenue stream from subscribers simply isn't enough to offset the costs for most companies, and this includes Netflix. The subscription-based future is ad-ridden, whether anyone likes it or not.
 
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Frankly, that still comes across as a rationalisation of paying less to trade away a previous freedom.

Anyway, a tangential issue is I'm not convinced subscription is a tenable model if it stays as it is, at least for the TV market. The revenue stream from subscribers simply isn't enough to offset the costs for most companies, and this includes Netflix. The subscription-based future is ad-ridden, whether anyone likes it or not.
Claiming facts not in evidence. Netflix was profitable before adding an ad tier. Ad tiers are either a race to the bottom, or a money grab. Depending on your perspective.

Oh wait, that's the same thing.
 
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Frankly, that still comes across as a rationalisation of paying less to trade away a previous freedom.

Which can be perfectly fine for consumer freedoms. With the possible exception of you being forced into choices you don't like by the outcomes of other people's choices.

Anyway, a tangential issue is I'm not convinced subscription is a tenable model if it stays as it is, at least for the TV market. The revenue stream from subscribers simply isn't enough to offset the costs for most companies, and this includes Netflix. The subscription-based future is ad-ridden, whether anyone likes it or not.

What might be untenable is the amount of content being produced.

Nacon exec says industry's problem is "too many games"

If you divide the costs of the content people can realistically consume by the number of gamers, it can be sustainable.
 

CuriouslySane

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I think I'm going to have to drop SteamWorld Build. The late game is a mess of an overcrowded map, nonsensical system goals and resource chains that are either buggy or just terrible at providing feedback about what they need. It doesn't sound like the game did well, and the lack of support writing for it is telling.
 
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malor

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I think I'm going to have to drop SteamWorld Build. The late game is a mess of an overcrowded map, nonsensical system goals and resource chains that are either buggy or just terrible at providing feedback about what they need. It doesn't sound like the game did well, and the lack of support writing for it is telling.
That company usually makes really good games, too. I wonder what went wrong with that one?
 

Demento

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That company usually makes really good games, too. I wonder what went wrong with that one?
I dunno, I played it through once and didn't have any troubles. I like that your city resource build is entirely separate from the underground stuff that gets attacked regularly. It means that even if you fuck up your defenses really badly, it's not a Big Deal to recover from. But then that also made it a bit too easy. It's really hard to ride the too easy/too hard line on that sort of game. I thought my goals were always clear and all the resource chains worked as advertised. It's just a so-so game is all. I might play it a second time, but not soon.
 

Sulphur

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I'm in strong agreement that previous FFs 'bit' soundtracks kicked ass, sometimes way more than VII did. But also, I think this Battle on the Big Bridge rendition in FFXV's Gladiolus DLC is pretty much its ultimate form; it's from the fella who did the Nier and Nier: Automata soundtracks. It loses the original's fun keyboard and trumpet interplay, but it gains by ballooning out into a percussive-forward choir and orchestra dopamine rush.
 
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I'm in strong agreement that previous FFs 'bit' soundtracks kicked ass, sometimes way more than VII did. But also, I think this Battle on the Big Bridge rendition in FFXV's Gladiolus DLC is pretty much its ultimate form; it's from the fella who did the Nier and Nier: Automata soundtracks. It loses the original's fun keyboard and trumpet interplay, but it gains by ballooning out into a percussive-forward choir and orchestra dopamine rush.
This just goes to show how badly they botched everything with FFXV. I played all of the DLCs and I don't remember that fight in the slightest. Honestly, aside from randomly driving around and a bit with Shiva on a train at the end of the game I don't remember anything from that game at all.
 

Elore

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Fight me at the big bridge! I'd put that up against anything from any later soundtrack.
It's a classic for sure, but there's still plenty good music in modern FFs. XIV tends to sail by a lot of people for obvious reasons, but it's got a soundtrack packed with both new versions of old classics as well as plenty of interesting original tracks. Since we are talking boss fights, some of my favorites include Metal: Brute Justice Mode and Beauty's Wicked Wiles.
 

Paladin

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You know what?!

I'm scared but hopeful.

A number of actually really good Tomb Raiders have been made... Lara Croft is basically Indiana Jones so... why not? It's Bethesda and I can see them having some trouble pulling off a first person action-adventure like this but it really look ok to me. Not excellent but it looks like a console first game and if it has a decent story and decent gameplay and controls, I'll be pretty happy with it.
 

BigLan

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You know what?!

I'm scared but hopeful.

A number of actually really good Tomb Raiders have been made... Lara Croft is basically Indiana Jones so... why not? It's Bethesda and I can see them having some trouble pulling off a first person action-adventure like this but it really look ok to me. Not excellent but it looks like a console first game and if it has a decent story and decent gameplay and controls, I'll be pretty happy with it.
The trailer's got him punching Nazi's so it's doing something right.
 

CPX

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The trailer's got him punching Nazi's so it's doing something right.

Punching Nazis in time with the theme song!

Though now I'm stuck hoping for a reimagined Fate of Atlantis, too...

Still, Troy Baker actually makes a good Indy and not just a good Indy expy.
 

Paladin

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Yeah, I really would not have any issue with game companies simply making really great adaptations of good movies. Lego Indiana Jones did fun recreations of the movie stories with little nods and tweaks. Doing the same with a more serious and flexible adaptation would be really enjoyable. Make a few alternate endings or branching variations to keep things interesting, expand this and that and you've got a great game. You're already paying licensing fees so really dig in and exploit it. It's fine. Just make it fun and do the characters and stories some justice. Of course you can't just remake the movies in a game engine but it would really be fine to adapt them to a great degree. Look how successful some of the Star Wars arcade games and stuff were with a really basic highlight of the main action setpieces... it would be super easy to take the work done for other adapted IP games (Jedi Outcast, etc.) and just make some 'Classic Trilogy' releases where you can essentially play the movies. Charge $30 or so or make them pack in games for hardware purchases, bonuses for whatever other tie in products, etc. Easy money and fun for the people who want it.
 

Sulphur

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This just goes to show how badly they botched everything with FFXV. I played all of the DLCs and I don't remember that fight in the slightest. Honestly, aside from randomly driving around and a bit with Shiva on a train at the end of the game I don't remember anything from that game at all.
Gotta agree. I barely remember the Gladiolus DLC myself. I will say that the Ignis one sticks out in my memory though, because it was a decent change of pace, and it's the first time Yasunori Mitsuda contributed to a Final Fantasy game's soundtrack in history.

The trailer's got him punching Nazi's so it's doing something right.

I think it's sorta hilarious that they got the resident Nazi punching/shooting/stabbing experts MachineGames to handle the dev duties. If there's any company that knows how to dispatch them, it's MG.

Having said that, it looks like it's running on the engine from the last set of Wolfenstein games, and while the visuals are decently pretty, whipping Nazis and throwing hammers at them looks almost like they've 1:1 transposed the (poor) stealth mechanics from Wolf as well, and I'm not sure they're a great fit for something like Indie. Preliminary knee-jerk really, I guess we'll see.

Props for the Wilhelm scream, though.
 
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You know what?!

I'm scared but hopeful.

A number of actually really good Tomb Raiders have been made... Lara Croft is basically Indiana Jones so... why not? It's Bethesda and I can see them having some trouble pulling off a first person action-adventure like this but it really look ok to me. Not excellent but it looks like a console first game and if it has a decent story and decent gameplay and controls, I'll be pretty happy with it.
Well, it's MachineGames and the Wolfenstein games were fine. I can't imagine they're going to break any more new ground than they did there (though they helped to bring back the run-n-gun genre) with this but they can solidly ape Tomb Raider.

Also, Troy Baker's an excellent VA and doing a fine job here but I kind of wish they'd gotten Anthony Ingruber to play Harrison Ford again.

Is Hellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice a good game? It doesn’t look like the sort of thing I usually go for, but it also looks kind of intriguing, and it’s on sale for $2.90 on Steam.

(Edit to add: man I dislike colons in game titles. Just call it Senua’s Sacrifice. That’s a much stronger title IMO.)
I really enjoyed it. It got a lot of comparisons to Dark Souls but, really, it's not that at all. Combat is deliberate but it's more present for how it interacts with the character's psychology than it is present for a challenge. Wear headphones though.
 
Is Hellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice a good game? It doesn’t look like the sort of thing I usually go for, but it also looks kind of intriguing, and it’s on sale for $2.90 on Steam.

(Edit to add: man I dislike colons in game titles. Just call it Senua’s Sacrifice. That’s a much stronger title IMO.)
What @krimhorn says. I would also point out that the combat is souls-ish in that it likes parries and dodges, but the difficulty options can make it trivial if you so desire. But it's a very, VERY good game. The presentation alone is worth 10 times what the sale price is. Pick it up - it's $3, and if you don't like the mechanics turn the difficulty to the super easy zero point and play it just for the presentation and story. Because, wow, does Senua go through some shit.

And until #2 comes out, you can refer to it by Senua and pretty much everyone will get what you are talking about. Also, can't wait for the second one!
 

Sulphur

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Is Hellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice a good game? It doesn’t look like the sort of thing I usually go for, but it also looks kind of intriguing, and it’s on sale for $2.90 on Steam.

(Edit to add: man I dislike colons in game titles. Just call it Senua’s Sacrifice. That’s a much stronger title IMO.)
It depends on what you normally do go for. Hellblade's gameplay isn't particularly stellar, but it looks amazing, and it has an absolutely incredible performance for its main character - as an attempt to talk about a difficult subject like mental health, it's worth it just for those elements alone, I'd say. The combat and the puzzles are refracted through these topics, but don't really stand out in terms of design or mechanical depth in my opinion. But it's all not necessarily meant to be 'fun' anyway, so consider them as things to negotiate on her journey through grief, which is the ultimate point of the game.
 

MichaelC

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(Edit to add: man I dislike colons in game titles. Just call it Senua’s Sacrifice. That’s a much stronger title IMO.)
But then: How will you know it's a Hell blade title: Familiar and safe IP:

I mean: Senua has a Hell blade or is one: Or fights one: I don't know: But ya gotta get all the information in the title: but they forgot one thing:

Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice: The first: Part I: The Hellblade Series: Followed by Hellblade II: We Haven't Figured Out the Rest of the Title

That would have been a more complete: and better title: